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Photo of unidentified Lancaster Bomber No.35 Sqdn and AirCrew, England, Globe War 2
Image by manintheorangeshirt
Do You know the identity of this Lancaster or the flight engineer from this crew? Was the photo taken in 1945? Can you aid? The photo belonged to my Uncle Vic and right after he died in 2009 I have been attempting to discover out more about who is in the image with him and what the identity of the aircraft in the background is. I have a copy of this photo which initially belonged to my Uncle Vic, I thought he was a Navigator in 35 Squadron Pathfinders for the duration of WW2 but it turns out he was a Wireless Operator (not the Navigator) in this aircrew with F/Sgt WN Mercer shown right here. I do not know the identity of the aircraft and i do not know what year it was taken or where, perhaps its 35 Squadron 1945. Right here is a summary of what I have found so far.
Aircrew from Left to correct:
1. Sgt FJ Soan (Mid-upper Gnr)
2. Sgt DV Durie (Rear Gnr)
three. F/Sgt EJL Hall(Navigator)
4. F/Sgt WN Mercer (Pilot – with officer rank, probably Pilot Officer)
5. Sgt HV Gash (Wireless Op) (03/04/23-ten/03/2009) – My Uncle
6. F/Sgt Brenner (Bomb Aimer)
7. W.J. (John) Cunningham (Flight Engineer) – Can anybody confirm his rank?
Thank you to Bill Norman for researching and identifying the crew in this photograph. Bill wrote to me and mentioned "Your uncle, Sgt HV Gash was the Wireless Operator (not the Navigator) in the crew of F/Sgt WN Mercer. The crew joined No.640 Sqdn (Flying Halifaxes), Leconfield, on 17 Jan. 1945. They have been later re-posted (on 17 March 1945) to No. 35 Sqdn (Pathfinders). This photograph was really most likely taken when they have been on No.35 Sqdn since the aircraft is a Lancaster – the aircraft employed by No.35."
Bill added "I have a crew photograph of this crew, taken when they joined 640, which identifies every member. Even so, the Flight Engineers differ – therefore the ‘unknown’. Mercer was clearly promoted right after leaving 640. The crew produced six trips with No.640 – you have them listed in the torn Flight Log Book.(see log books images) You might been interested in a copy of my book HALIFAX SQUADRON (the wartime bombing operations of No.640 Sqdn). Your uncle and his crew are pointed out – however your uncle is shown as HV Money. The book charges £27.50 (Post cost-free). Specifics can be located at www.billnorman.co.uk
I think the photo above may possibly nicely have been a photo taken at the end of the war, therefore the smiling in the picture and I also suspect that the aircraft could either have been a handy aircraft near the primary buildings to be photographed with or it may have had some thing to do with the head of Pathfinders, Don Bennet, who was an Australian. Nevertheless, I cant be positive. can anyone support shed some light on thsi picture?
Flight Sergeant (Flt Sgt, F/Sgt, F/S, FSgt or FS) is a senior non-commissioned rank in the British Royal Air Force and numerous other air forces which have adopted all or element of the RAF rank structure. It is equivalent to a Staff Sergeant in the British Army and has a NATO rank code of OR-7. Apart from the RAF, the rank of Flight Sergeant is also used by numerous Commonwealth air forces, which includes the Royal Australian Air Force, the Royal New Zealand Air Force, the Ghana Air Force, the Bangladesh Air Force, the Sri Lanka Air Force, the South African Air Force and the Air Force of Zimbabwe.
The Lancaster Aircraft in the background is identity unknown. Probably at a guess it is a photo from 35 squadron March 1945 onwards, either Avro Lancaster I or Avro Lancaster III. It could have 35 Squadron Code of "TL" – The Picture may have been taken at Graveley Airfield as part of No. 8 (PFF) Group – pff stands for path finder force.
The Nose art shows Kangaroos as an alternative of bombs so probably the Lancaster was an RAAF plane or had an Australian Pilot.
In the European Theatre of Globe War II, RAAF personnel were specifically notable in RAF Bomber Command: they represented two % of all RAAF personnel throughout the war, but accounted for 23% of the total quantity killed in action. This statistic is additional illustrated by the fact that for instance No. 460 Squadron RAAF, largely flying Avro Lancasters, had an official establishment of about 200 aircrew and but had 1,018 combat deaths. The squadron was consequently properly wiped out 5 occasions more than.
right here is some information provided by T: "Not only are the mission symbols Kangaroos, there is an Australian flag as well!
Note, Pathfinders flew a "double tour" 45 missions, not the usual 30.
Also of note is the lack of exhaust shrouds, which had been utilized for night operations. Perhaps this is taken post war?
This is late model Lancaster, it has the deeper bomb aimer perspex nose, and the later paddle blade propellers, and is painted black inside, older planes had been grey green inside the nose.
There were a lot of a lot of alterations introduced for the duration of the Lancaster use in WW2, but the Mark numbers had been not changed.
You need a serial number to inform a BI from a BIII, the BI was fitted with British produced Rolls Royce Merlins, the BIII was fitted with USA built Packard Merlins (as utilised in the Mustang and Spitfire XVI)
The engine components have been not interchangeable hence the various mark numbers, but look the same with the cowlings on.
There have been also Canadian built MkX utilized as properly.
As a relative I think you could get in touch with the RAF for far more info, or try the RAF musuem at hendon, they are quite helpful and informative." – T
What I do know about: Sgt HV Gash (Wireless Op) / Herbert Victor Gash
He was in 640 Squadron flying Halifaxes and later 35 Squadron flying Lancasters.
He flew in Halifaxes, Lancasters and Mosquitos
He was a wireless operator and he also said he was a Navigator.
He was primarily based at RAF Leconfield and RAF Graveley
He was in the Pathfinders beneath Donald Bennett.
I know from torn pages from his logbook that he flew Halifax III’s in March 1945, with 640 squadron based at Leconfield. According to Bill Norman This crew joined No.640 Sqdn, Leconfield, on 17 Jan. 1945. They had been later re-posted (on 17 March 1945) to No. 35 Sqdn (Pathfinders).
HV GASH was a Flight Sergeant for most of the War and towards the end he became a Warrant Officer. The Photo shows three stripes on his arm so he is clearly a Flight Sergeant in the picture.
Just prior to my Uncle Vic died, I managed to record a brief couple of words from him over the phone. He refused to talk openly about his experiences throughout the second world war and following the war had ended he refused to fly and by no means flew once again.
(I was) "….primarily based close to Beverley, about 6 miles North of Hull (England).(I was) Based at Leconfield, 640 squadron, used to booze (go drinking) at the Green Dragon in Beverley." (Leconfield is a small village in the East Riding of Yorkshire on the A614,approximately 2 miles North of Beverley. The East Riding of Yorkshire is a regional government district in the United Kingdom. … Place inside the British Isles. …Leconfield is home to RAF Leconfield, now utilised as a base for Sea King helicopters of the the 202 Squadron. The Green Dragon pub can be found at 51 Saturday Market place, Beverley, East Yorkshire, HU17 8AA United Kingdom 01482 889801)
"…..we did one particular particular daylight raid on Cologne, we had been told that there was mist on the rhine and we have been told we would see the twin towers of the cathedral sticking by means of the mist on the rhine. that was our aiming point 850 of us, we all aimed at it but no one hit it."
"…..For the final year of the war we were typical placing up amongst 600 and 900 planes for every single raid. Generally 600 Lancs and 300 Halifaxes"
"…..There was a danger of collision at evening…… Effectively, we did a couple of Daylights otherwise at night it was a bit dodgy, particularly crossing the North Sea. We put our navigation lights on above us but we have been supposed to place our navigation lights out…..But crossing the North Sea at 500ft, about 800 of you…. was bloody dodgy….. and if you jump out you are wasting your time, it’s no good jumping into the sea."
"….the poor women and kids get the battering never they? I never know how several have been in fact slaughtered. We shouldn’t have gone to Dresden, that was a terrible trip, that evening Lancasters went to Dresden twice. and we went to a target 60 miles south of that named Chemnitz. All halifaxes, 500 of us went to chemnitz……Dresden was an all Lancaster raid and of course we didn’t realize what the Lancasters have been doing to Dresden. We have been bombing Chemnitz through 16,000 strong foot of cloud, we ended up dropping markers and we bombed on radar. nevertheless, i’ve talked enough about that now……" – Herbert Victor Gash 2009
I did have some other conversations with him but i didn’t record them so i can only repeat what I can keep in mind. He flew on Lancasters as component of Operation Manna dropping meals to The Dutch in 1945. He said the aircraft had to fly at 400feet or reduce so as not to damage the meals sacks as they have been dropped with no parachute. He mentioned he remembered one particular trip when the plane was flying so low to the ground that as he looked out of the navigation window he remembered seeing the German Gunners for the first time and how young they looked. He stated he could even see clearly what brand of cigarette the German Gunners were smoking in their gun turrets as the plane passed overhead.
information from the net: The Dutch very first heard of the plans for Operation Manna on April 24th when it was announced by the British Broadcasting Corporation. Then on April 29th the folks of Holland heard the BBC announce, "Bombers of the Royal Air Force have just taken off from their bases in England to drop meals supplies to the Dutch population in enemy-occupied territory."
A seventeen year old student at the time, Arie de Jong wrote, "There are no words to describe the emotions experienced on that Sunday afternoon. More than 300 4-engined Lancasters, flying exceptionally low, all of a sudden filled the western horizon." Arie’s diary recorded, "One could see the gunners waving in their turrets. A marvellous sight. One particular Lancaster roared more than the town at 70 feet. I saw the aircraft tacking amongst church steeples and drop its bags in the South. Everywhere we looked, bombers could be seen. No 1 remained inside and everybody dared to wave cloths and flags. What a feast! Everybody is excited with joy. The war should be over soon now."
It was a memorable day for the Bomber Command aircrew as well. Though there had been discussions with the Germans, an agreement to permit the Lancasters to drop the food supplies had not been finalized and on the 1st day of Operation Manna the Germans have been manning their anti-aircraft guns as the bombers flew more than, so low that they could have been very easily shot down. But the Germans held their fire.
The approaches to the drop zones were made at extremely low altitude in order not to harm the meals any more than needed as it was dropped in gunny sacks without parachutes.
A total of 3100 flights were made by Bomber Command, and an added 2200 by the American Air Force which joined the operation on Could 1st. Operation Manna ended with Germany’s surrender on May 8th. Even though more than 11 000 tons of meals had been dropped in the ten days of the operation, some 20,000 individuals died of starvation.
Further Details i’ve identified on the internet:
No.35 Squadron went through two incarnations in the course of the Second Planet War. At the commence of the war it was equipped with the Fairey Battle, but in contrast to most Battle units was not sent to France, alternatively acting as a coaching unit, equipped with a mix of Battles, Ansons and Blenheims. The squadron was combined with No. 207 Squadron, 1st to type No.1 Group Pool on 1 October 1939 and then to type No. 17 Operational Instruction Unit on 8 April 1940.
The second incarnation started on five November 1940. The new No. 35 was the very first squadron to use the Handley Page Halifax. A detachment from the squadron had been training on the prototype Halifaxes, and began to work with the very first production aircraft in November 1940. The squadron carried out the initial Halifax raid on 10 March 1941. In August 1942 the squadron was transferred to the new Pathfinder Force (No. 8 Group), remaining with that unit till the end of the war. In March 1944 the squadron converted to the Avro Lancaster.
Location
25 August-7 December 1939: Cranfield
7 December 1939-1 February 1940: Bassingbourn
1 February-8 April 1940: Upwood
5-20 November 1940: Boscombe Downe
20 November-5 December 1940: Leeming
5 December 1940-15 August 1942: Linton-on-Ouse
15 August 1942-18 September 1946: Graveley, to join No. 8 (PFF) Group pff stands for path finder force
Aircraft
April 1938-February 1940: Fairey Battle
February 1939-April 1940: Avro Anso
November 1939-April 1940: Blenheim Mk IV
November 1940-February 1942: Handley Page Halifax B I
January 1942-March 1944: Handley Web page Halifax B II
December 1943-March 1944: Handley Web page Halifax B III
March 1944-October 1949: Avro Lancaster I and Avro Lancaster III
35 Squadron Motto: "We act with a single accord"
Squadron Codes: TL
Group and Duty
On 26 September 1939: Pool squadron with No. 6 Group
eight April 1940: Merges with No.207 Squadron to become No.17 OTU
From November 1940-August 1942: Bomber squadron with No. four Group
From August 1942: Pathfinder squadron with No. 8 (PFF) Group
No. 640 Squadron RAF was a bomber squadron of the Royal Air Force throughout the Second Globe War. The Royal Air Force (RAF) is the air force branch of the British Armed Forces.
It was 1st formed at Leconfield, Yorkshire in January 1944, from C Flight of No. 158 Squadron RAF. Leconfield is a tiny village in the East Riding of Yorkshire on the A614, approximately 2 miles North of Beverley. …
It was equipped with Halifax III bombers, and operated as part of No. four Group RAF in Bomber Command. It re-equipped with Halifax VI bombers in March 1945, and was disbanded at Leconfield in Could.
RAF Bomber Command was the organisation that controlled the RAF’s bomber forces. It was formed on 14 July 1936 from the bomber element of the Air Defence of Fantastic Britain and absorbed into the new Strike Command in 1968.
The Royal Air Force (often abbreviated to RAF) is the air force branch of the British Armed Forces. … The Air Defence of Fantastic Britain (ADGB) refers to two diverse components of the RAF depending on the time period in question. … The Royal Air Forces Strike Command is the military organization which controls the majority of the United Kingdoms combat aircraft. …
Bomber Command 1st located fame throughout World War II, when aircrews beneath the command of Air Chief Marshal Sir Arthur Harris, destroyed a significant proportion of Nazi Germany’s industries and many German cities. Combatants Allies: Poland, British Commonwealth, France/Totally free France, Soviet Union, United States, China, and other folks Axis Powers: Germany, Italy, Japan, and others Casualties Military dead: 17 million Civilian dead: 33 million Total dead: 50 million Military dead: eight million Civilian dead: 4 million Total dead: 12 million Globe War II… An Air Chief Marshals sleeve/shoulder insignia Air Chief Marshal is the most senior rank active in the Royal Air Force (RAF) these days, soon after the inactivation of Marshal of the Royal Air Force as a substantive rank in peacetime in the course of defence cuts of the 1990s. … Sir is a British honorary title representing knighthood or baronetcy. … Sir Arthur Travers Harris, 1st Baronet (April 13, 1892 – April five, 1984), commonly identified as Bomber Harris, and often, in the RAF, as Butcher Harris, was commander of RAF Bomber Command and later a Marshal of the Royal Air Force throughout the latter half of World War II.
Many of Bomber Command’s personnel and squadrons in the course of the war were neither British nor component of the RAF a big proportion came from Commonwealth nations, or occupied Europe.
No. 640 Squadron was formed from C Flight of No. 158 Squadron in January 1944 as portion of No.four Group. It took portion in the primary bombing offensive against Germany as component of Bomber Command’s principal bomber force. The squadron was one of six in No.4 Group to operate the Halifax B.Mk VI just before the finish of the war. It was disbanded on 7 Might 1945.
Aircraft
January 1944 to March 1945: Handley Web page Halifax B.Mk III
March 1945 to Might 1945: Handley Page Halifax B.Mk VI
Place
7 January 1944-7 Could 1945: Leconfield
Squadron Codes: C8
Duty
1944-1945: Bomber Command primary bomber force
The Pathfinder Force officially came into being on 15th August 1942, soon after some weeks spent in behind the scenes manoeuvring. It was set up in direct response to the very poor accuracy being accomplished on bombing raids, which was threatening the complete bomber offensive. Harris, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief of Bomber Command, had been strongly opposed to the setting up of a separate elite target-marking force, believing this would leave to rivalry and jealousy inside the non-Pathfinder squadrons (hereafter referred to as Major Force) who would inevitably resent obtaining their greatest crews taken away from them.
Harris wrote in his book, Bomber Offensive,
"I was more than-ruled by the Air Ministry. In other situations I need to not have accepted the position, but we had been now faced with the truth that Gee had failed as a bombing help and that the new radar aids, Oboe and H2S … had been not now to be forthcoming until the end of the year. For the time getting it was crucial to improve our techniques of finding the target visually and marking it, and this seemed to require the whole time activities of a specialised force."
Although he had argued strongly against the need to have for such a specialised force, Harris was shrewd enough to know that as soon as he had conceded the point to his superiors, he would be able to set up the new force as he chose. It was he who insisted on its name, and secured authority for the Pathfinder eagle, the modest golden badge which was to mark the crews out from Principal Force.
It was Harris, above all, who secured the appointment of Don Bennett as the force’s new commander. At 32 years of age, Bennett was significantly younger than his fellow Group Commanders. He had spent portion of his career outdoors the RAF in civil aviation, flying knowledge which was then very significantly looked down upon by a lot of career officers as becoming inferior and second-price. That Bennett was an Australian and so young, yet had won such a plum job, one which was central to the entire bombing offensive, must have added insult to injury.
Harris, however, never ever had the slightest doubt about Bennett’s capabilities. He did not even contemplate any other candidate, getting the highest opinion of Bennett he was later to call him "the most efficient airman I have ever met".
Initial Make-up of the Pathfinder Force
After some political manoeuvring, the initial squadrons have been donated by the Group Commanders – those who had also opposed the setting up of the PFF, and did not want to lose their best and most seasoned crews to this new and untested arrangement.
Some of the most promising new intakes at the OTUs were also to be allocated to the PFF.
The PFF initially consisted of 5 squadrons:
7 Squadron, from three Group, flying Stirlings
35 Squadron, from 4 Group, flying Halifaxes
83 Squadron, from 5 Group, the only Squadron flying Lancasters
109 Squadron, from two Group, flying Wellingtons, but shortly to be re-equiped with Mosquitoes
156, from 1 Grroup, flying Wellingtons.
The PFF would ultimately be completely equipped with Lancasters and Mosquitoes, the most appropriate aircraft for its job.
The Pathfinders’ motto was "We Guide to Strike"
The Pathfinder Force Becomes a Separate Group
The PFF squadrons were positioned at adjacent airfields inside No three Group – Oakington, Graveley, Wyton and Warboys, with the headquarters then getting at Wyton. Initially the force was beneath the direct handle of Harris, and relied on three Group only for administration, pay and rations.
On 8th January 1943, even so, the PFF expanded into a fully new Group, No 8 (PFF). This was in recognition of the huge improvements achieved by Bennet. Bennett himself, hitherto only a Group Captain, was promoted to Air Commodore, a move which gave him equality of function, even though not of rank, with the other group commanders.
In April 1943 the PFF gained two a lot more heavy bomber squadrons, 405 (RCAF) Squadron and 97 Squadron, to be primarily based respectively at Gransden Lodge and Bourn.
It also acquired the Mosquitoes of 1409 Meteorological Flight, which permitted Bennett to study climate situations much more closely, an completely crucial ingredient in the accomplishment of bombing raids and the safety of the crews returning house afterwards.
Continuing its expansion, in June 1943 the Mosquito Squadrons 105 and 109 were added to the PFF, both to be based at Marham. Later in that same month the PFF HQ was moved from Wyton to Castle Hill Home in Huntingdon, exactly where it remained for the rest of the war.
Pathfinders were the leaders of Principal Force, the Mosquitos and Lancasters flying at the head of the huge bombing stream which contained maybe 400-700 aircraft when it swarmed out from Britain on a raid.
Such raids took location at night since it was suicidal to fly them in the day. In the darkness the large force swamped the defences security lay in numbers and the bomber stream was meant to hold together as compactly as possible, but the extreme troubles of navigation with comparatively primitive aids meant that errors of judgement have been all too easily made.
The Pathfinders were the guides to Principal Force, not only as route-markers on the long hazardous trip to the target but also more than the target itself, where, with their much better navigational tactics and technologies, they had the task of pinpointing the places where the bombs should be released.
The Pathfinders had been essential to the accomplishment of the bombing raids, which were planned to the most minutely exact timetable. They had to reach the target in spite of all the issues of navigation – changing weather conditions, variable winds, German nightfighters and flak defences – inside a tolerance of only one minute. They had to drop their target indicators on specifically the proper spot even though the whole scene may be enveloped in dense cloud and higher winds may well shift the flares miles off target. When they failed, which they not infrequently did, the resulting confusion had a disastrous knock-on impact on Main Force.
Despite the crucial nature of their part, Pathfinder crews have been not a hand-picked elite. Crews reached 8 Group by different routes, about two-thirds coming with considerable expertise from Principal Force squadrons, the rest from Coastal Command, the Middle East, or any other spot exactly where great crews could be found, like straight from the instruction units with no operational encounter.
The Pathfinders’ general level of expertise and competence appears to have been considerably reduced than Bennett would have liked, and this trend became specifically marked in the course of the Battle of Berlin when the appalling loss price drained the Group. In a single horrendous six week period among 16th December 1943 and the end of January 1944, 87 Pathfinder crews became casualties in missing or crashed aircraft. The odds stacked against all bomber crews, Pathfinder or Main Force, were appalling.
Getting in Bomber Command was an very dangerous way of life. Of the 125,000 aircrew who served in Bomber Command in the course of the Second World War, 56,000 would be killed.
When they volunteered for the PFF, crews would have been conscious that, if accepted, they would be signing on for a tour of 45 operations with no a break (Major Force flew a initial tour of 30 and a second tour of 20). The compensation for this dangerously extended tour was getting one step greater in rank than in Primary Force, with attendant enhance in pay, but a significantly far more compelling motive was the exclusivity, honour and glamour of belonging to the Pathfinders. This privilege was symbolised by the Pathfinder badge. Although valueless in itself, the tiny hovering gold eagle was an emblem of really special status, and what it represented so secret that it was never worn on operations.
Please note that the only other place on the net where this photo can be found is here at: www.lancaster-archive.com/aircrew-photographs.htm I never know who supplied the photo to that website or exactly where that copy came from. Please get in touch if you can supply any data to add to this photo’s description. Cheers Mark
e-mail: mark at ironmanrecords.co.uk